中國總理溫傢寶周四（2010年9月23日）接收瞭美國有線電視新聞網(CNN)「紮卡裡亞寰球掃描」(Fareed Zakaria GPS)節目掌管人法裡德•紮卡裡亞的走訪。此節目規劃於美國台灣東邊時光(2010年10月3日,周日上午十點播出）。全文譯出，以匆匆入工具方的交換和懂得，偏重現這場聽說廣受東方人稱道的訪談，由於它充足鋪現一個年夜國首腦的言談風范。
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Do you feel that the global economy is, at this point, stable and strong? Or do you worry a lot that there is a danger of the so-called double dip, that the United States, in particular, could go back into a recession?
PREMIER WEN JIABAO, CHINA (through translator): Well, objectively speaking, I think the world economy is recovering,although the process of recovery is a slow and torturous one. People may not have the same view on this matter, but I believe we will learn a lesson from the reality. I hope that there will be a quick recovery of the U.S. economy, because, after all, the U.S. economy is the largest in the world.
I have taken note of the recent policies and measures taken by President Obama, including the program of doubling the United States exports and the massive investment in infrastructural development. I think these passes and measures are the ones on the right track, moving in the right direction. Although they came a little bit late, they still came in time.
This reminds me of the time when I took the big decision of
advancing a massive stimulus package in China. Back then, people had different views concerning this policy. But now, the progress has shown that our stimulus package is a successful one.
ZAKARIA: Your stimulus package was 10 times larger, as a
percentage of your GDP, than — than the U.S. on工商 登記 地址e. It was an extraordinary program.
Is there a worry that it has — it has produced a bubble in
China, in real estate? Are there dangers of inflation because the government spent so much money? And what happens now that that stimulus is going to wear off? There will be less and less government spending.
WEN: From what you said, I think you have not seen our stimulus package in its full or in its entirety. I would like to say that our stimulus package has four key components.
The first is massive public spending, structural tax cuts and infrastructural development.
The second is the adjustment and upgrading of industrial structure in China.
The third is scientific and technological innovation and the development of emerging industries with strategic significance.
The fourth is the improvement of social safety net. The $4 trillion RMB Yuan investment does not all come from the government.
Public finance only accounts for $1.18 trillion RMB Yuan and the rest will come from the non-public sector and fundraising from financial markets.
The implementation of the stimulus package has insured the
continuance of steady and relatively fast economic growth in China.
It has helped maintain the good momentum of China’’s economic development in the past 30 years and it has helped us avoid major fluctuations in the process of China’’s modernization because of a severe external shock.
At the same time, it has laid a solid foundation for future development of the Chinese economy. We are on high alert against the challenge that you referred to in your question.
Let me make three points. First, there is a possibility of
inflation in China.
That is why we have formulated the task of skillfully manag the relations between maintaining steady and relatively fast economic development, structural adjustment and managing inflation expectations. This is at the core of China’’s macroeconomic control.
I do have worry for the management of inflation expectations in China. And that is something that I have been trying very hard to manage appropriately and well, because I believe corruption and inflation will have an adverse impact on stability of power in our country. And these two both concern the trust and support of people in the government. And this is the perspective that I see the issue of inflation in China.
Second, with implementation of the stimulus package, there are fiscal and financial risks at the level of local governments. We have some financing vehicles of local governments. They have some debts.
But this is not a new problem that took place after the break– outbreak of the financial crisis. Rather, this already came into being back in the 1980s.
Now, with the financing platforms of local governments in place, they have accumulated a total debt about $7.6 trillion RMB Yuan.
And I can say that this debt, at the local level, is still within a range that we can manage. But it is important that we appropriately handle this matter to ensure that the debts at local governments’’ level will not bring about risks in our public finance and in the financl sector.
The ratio of budget deficit in China’’s total GDP is within 3 percent. The total debts in China versus GDP’’s ratio is within 20 percent range.
That is to say, it’’s still in the range that we can manage.也便是說，這個風險咱們完整可以或許把握。
The third point is a more important one, that is, all our investment now must be conducive to our economic structural adjustment, not the contrary. This concerns our long-te development prospects and therefore is of high importance.
ZAKARIA: May I ask you what lesson you have drawn from the financial crisis? Have you lost faith in American macroeconomic management?
A Chinese friend said to me, he said, "We were like the students in class and we would always listen to what the Americans would tell us." And now we look up, and we think, "Mae the teacher actually didn’’t know what he was talking about."
WEN: In the face of the financial crisis, any person who has a sense of responsibility towards the country, and towards the entire humanrace should learn lessons from the financial crisis. As far as I’’m concerned, the biggest lesson that I have drawn from the financial crisis is that, in managing the affairs of a country, it’’s important
to pay close attention to addressing the structural problems in the economy.
China has achieved enormous progress in its development, winning acclaim around the world. Yet, I was one of the first ones to argue that our economic development still lacks balance, coordination, and sustainability. This financial crisis has reinforced my view on this point. On the one hand, we must tackle the financial crisis; on the other, we must continue to address our own problems. And we must do these two tasks well at the same time, and this is a very difficult one.
China has a vast domestic market. And there is a great potential in China’’s domestic demand. China is at a stage of accelerated urbanization and industrialization. We can rely on stimulating domestic demand to stabilize and further grow the Chinese economy. This requires us that we must seize the opportunities, speed up our development, and stabilize the Chinese economy.
And on that basis, we must take a long term perspective to
address all these structural challenges in our economy. As far as theUS economy is concerned, I always believe that the U.S. economy is solidly based, not only in a material sense, but more importantly, the United States has the strength of scientific and technological talent, and managerial expertise.
It has accumulated a wealth of experience in its economic development over the past…more than 200 years. In spite of the twists and turns, the United States, I believe, will tide over the crisis and difficulties, and we must have confidence in the prospects of the U.S. economy.
The recovery and further growth of the largest economy in the world-that is, the U.S. economy-is in the interest of the recovery and stability of the world economy.作為寰球最年夜的經濟體美國經濟的復蘇與成長也關系到寰球經濟的成長與不亂。
ZAKARIA: You — you wrote an article about your old boss, Hu Yaobang, which I was very struck by. In it, you praised him. Do you think, in retrospect, that Hu Yaobang was a very good leader of China?
WEN: Yes. I think I have given a fair assessment of the
history of this person. He made his own contributions to China’’s reform and opening up. I want to make the following three points.
First, he vigorously advanced the debate surrounding the
criteria in judging what truth is. And through that, he has contributed to the effort of freeing people’’s minds.
Second, irrespective of various resistance, he took steps to free a large number of officials and cadres who were wronged in the Cultural Revolution.
And, third, he himself took actions to advance China’’s reform and opening up.第三，他開端瞭中國的改造凋謝工作
ZAKARIA: You – you speak, in your speeches, about how China is not yet a strong and creative nation in terms of its economy.
Can you be a strong and creative nation with so many restrictions on freedom of expression, with the Internet being censored? Don’’t you need to open all that up if you want true creativity?
WEN: I believe freedom of speech is indispensable for any
country, a country in the course of development and a country that has become strong. Freedom of speech has been incorporated into the Chinese citution.
I don’’t think you know all about China on this point. In
China, there are about 400 million Internet users and 800 million mobile phone subscribers. 實在你對中國的情形並不完整相識， 中國有四億網平易近，八億手機用戶。
They can access the Internet to express their views, including critical views. I often log onto the Internet and I have read sharp criticalomments on the work of the government, on the Internet and also there are commendable words about the work of the government.
I often say that we should not only let people have the
freedom of speech. We, more importantly, must create conditions to let them criticize the work of the government. And it is only when there is the supervision and critical oversight from the people that the government will be in a position to do an even better job and employees of government departments will be the true public servants of the people.
All these must be conducted within the range allowed by the
constitution and the laws.
So that the country will have a normal order. And that is all the more necessary for such a large country as China, with 1.3 billion people.
ZAKARIA: Premier Wen — since we are being honest, when I
come to China and I try to use the Internet, there are many sites that are blocked. It is difficult to get information. Any opinion that seems to challenge the political primacy of the, of the party is not allowed. Hu Yaobang, for example, was not somebody who could be
mentioned in the – in "The China Daily" until your own article appeared. It just feels to me like all these restrictions — this — the vast apparatus that monitors the Internet are — are going to make it difficult for your people to truly be creative and to truly do what
it seems you wish them to do.
WEN: I believe I and all the Chinese people have such a
conviction that China will make continuous progress and the people’’s wishes for and needs for democracy and freedom are irresistible. Ihope that you will be able to gradually see the continuous progress of China.
ZAKARIA: You have given a – a series of very interesting
speeches in the last few weeks — the last few months. I was particularly struck by one you gave in Shenzhen, where you said,"Along with economic reform, we must keep doing political reform."This is a point you made in our last interview. But a lot of people I know in China — Chinese people say there has been economic reform over the last six or seven years, but there has not been much political reform.
What do you say to people who listen to your speeches and they say, "We love everything Wen Jiabao says, but we don’’t see the actions of political reform?"有人說“咱們喜歡聽溫傢寶措辭，但沒有望到他在政治改造上的步履”你有什麼話要歸應嗎？
WEN: Actually, this is a viewpoint that was put forward by Mr. Deng Xiaoping a long time ago.
And I think anyone who has a sense of responsibility for his country should have deep thinking about this topic and put what he believes into action.
I have done some deeper thinking about this topic since we
last met. My view is that a political party, after it becomes a ruling party, should be somewhat different from the one when it was struggling for power.自從咱們前次會晤後來，我對此問題有瞭更深地思索。我的概念是一個政黨在它在朝後來，應當不同於它的反動時代
The biggest difference should be that this political party
should act in accordance with the constitution and the law.
The policies and propositions of a political party can be translated into parts of the constitution and the laws through appropriate legal procedures. All political parties, organizations and all people should abide by the constitution and laws without any exception. They must all act in accordance with the constitution and
I see that as a defining feature of modern political system development.
I have summed up my political ideals into the following four sentences.
To let everyone lead a happy life with dignity. To let
everyone feel safe and secure. To let the society be one with equity and justice and to let everyone have confidence in the future.
In spite of the various discussions and views in the society and in spite of some resistance, I will act in accordance with these ideals unswervingly and advance, within the realm of my capabilities, political restructuring.
I would like to tell you the following two sentences to
reinforce my case on this or my view on this point, that is, I will not fall in spite of a strong wind and harsh rain and I will not yield till the last day of my life.
ZAKARIA: The currency issue is a difficult one, the renminbi.Let me put it to you this way: despite assurances from China, the renminbi has only appreciated 1.8% in the last two years. Is it not in China’’s interest to allow for more significant appreciation?
Because right now, you are subsidizing exporters at the cost of the wages of the ordinary Chinese workers. You’’re risking some inflation. And it creates the very lack of balance that you talk about. So, wouldn’’t it be good for China to allow a more substantial appreciation of the renminbi?
WEN JIABAO, PREMIER OF CHINA: Allow me to make a comment on
what you just said. I think your view still represents the view of theUnited States. Or, to be more specific, the view of a small number of members of Congress of the United States公司 登記 地址 營業 地址.
The Chinese economy and the US economy are closely interconnected.
Our bilateral trade has already reached 300 billion U.S.
dollars. US investment in China has exceeded 60 billion US dollars. China has purchased US T-Bonds worth about 900 billion US dollars.
No one will believe that the Chinese leadership does not
follow closely the development of the US economy. Yet, some people in the United States, in particular some in the US Congress, do not know fully about China. They are politicizing the problems in China-US relations-in particular, the trade imbalance between our two countries.沒人會置信中國引導人不會和美國堅持傑出的經濟去來。可是有些美國人，精心是某些國會議員不相識中國。他們將中美之間的問題尤其是兩國商業不服衡的問題政治化。
I don’’t think this is the right thing to do.
I highly appreciate you giving me this opportunity of the interview, because you gave me the opportunity to further explain what the real situation is. There are three points which are not widely known with regard to exchange rate of RMB and China’’s trade surplus.
First, China does not pursue a trade surplus.
Our objective in having foreign trade is to have balance and sustainable trade with other countries, and we want to have a basic equilibrium in our balance of payments. This is what we have been saying and doing. 咱們的對外商業目的是均衡可連續，堅持國際商業出入均衡。這是咱們始終在說的，也是如許做的。
In 2008, China’’s surplus and current accounts ratio in GDP stood at 9.9 percent. On 2009, that figure dropped to 5.8 percent. And in the first half of 2010, that figure further declined to 2.2 percent.
Second, the increase of a trade surplus of a country is not
necessarily linked with the exchange policy of that country. We started the reform of RMB exchange rate regime back in the 1994. And since then, the Chinese currency has appreciated by 55 percent against the U.S. dollar.
And over the same time frame, the currencies of major
economies and currencies of China’’s neighboring countries have all depreciated by a large margin.同時，寰球經濟年夜國和中國周邊國傢的貨泉匯率都在年夜幅升值。
China’’s trade has been growing fast over the same time frame.Actually, there is a period like that in the history of the United States, too. In the almost 100 years between the 1870s and 1970s, the United States was a surplus country.
And this is actually what would happen for a country in a
certain stage of development.
The third point, which is a more important one and one that
you are aware of, that is, the trade imbalance between our two countries is mainly structural in nature. China runs a trade surplus in processing trade but a deficit in general trade. China has a trade surplus in trade in goods, but a deficit in trade in services — in services.
We have a trade surplus with the United States and the European Union, but a deficit with Japan, the ROK and ASEAN countries. Many of the Chinese exports to the United States are no longer produced in the U.S. and I don’’t believe that the United States will restart the production of those products — products which are at
the low end of the value added chain. Even if you don’’t buy those products from China, you still have to buy them from India, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. And that will not help resolve the trade imbalance between our two countries.
咱們對美國和歐盟有商業順差，可是對japan(日本)公司 地址 出租、韓國以及東友邦傢是逆差。許多中國對美出口的產物是美國曾經休止生孩子的。我不以為美國會從頭生孩子這些低附加值的產物。縱然你不買中國的這些產物，你也要買印度、斯裡蘭卡、孟加拉國的。這並無助於解決中美兩國間的商業不服衡問題。
I remember that you gave the example of iPod player in the
United States. An iPod player is sold at $299 in the States. But the Chinese producer only gets $4 in processing fee.
There is another point that I think you may not be aware of, a point that many of the members of the U.S. Congress are not aware of.That is, out of the 50,000 U.S. companies registered in China, 22,000 of them are export companies and to impose sanctions on export companies in China is tantamount to imposing sanctions on U.S. companies.
ZAKARIA: You know, the last time we talked, I, we, we, I asked you what books you were reading and what books you – you found interesting. Is there some thing, some book you’’ve read in the last few months that you .that has impressed you?
WEN: Well the books that are always on my shelves are books about history because I believe history is like a mirror and I like to read both Chinese history and history of foreign countries.
There are two books that I often travel with. One is the Theory on Moral Sentiments by Adam Smith. The other is The Meditations.我常常讀的兩本書是亞當斯密的《道德情操論》和《尋思錄》
It’’s not that I agree with all the views expressed in the
books. But I believe ideas and thoughts of older generation can offer food for thought for the current generation. There are too many memoirs selling one-self nowadays. I don’’t like reading those books.I believe what a person should leave behind to the world is truth -something true. And we must recognize that even truthful will things will dissipate one day.
ZAKARIA: Let me ask you, as our final question, Premier Wen.This has struck me as a — as an example of your frankness. You have spoken of your determination to continue political reform despite obstructions within the country and within the party – despite opposition within the party. You’’ve spoken of your fear that corruption and inflation will erode social stability. You’’ve praised Hu Yaobang and talked about the wise leadership he provided, even though he was regarded by many as a — as a dangerously liberal leader.
Do you believe that the next generation of Chinese leaders,
who will take power in – in two years, will share your outlook and keep trying to press the vision you are pressing forward?
WEN: You may think that have you asked the toughest question today, but I think it is actually the easiest question to answer. Let me make two points with regard to that future you referred to.
First, I would like to say that, as the Chinese saying goes,as the Yangtze River forges ahead waves upon waves, the new generation will invariably surpass the old. I have confidence that future Chinese leadership will excel the previous one.
Second, it is the people an商業 登記 地址d the strength of the people who determine the future of the country and history. The wish and will of the people are not stoppable. Those who go along with the trend will thrive and those who go against the trend will fail.
Thank you for the interview.
ZAKARIA: It’’s an honor and a pleasure. Thank you, Premier.